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Poster: | Lum Edwards | Date: | Aug 19, 2010 4:40pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | What Is Gone |
This post was modified by Lum Edwards on 2010-08-19 23:40:34
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Poster: | Scott Bot | Date: | Aug 26, 2010 6:02am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | MrGranger | Date: | Aug 23, 2010 12:13pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | Poe1809 | Date: | Aug 25, 2010 6:41pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | Kevin VandeWettering | Date: | Feb 19, 2013 9:58am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
http://www.pdinfo.com/Copyright-Law/Public-Domain-Sound-Recordings.php
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Poster: | PDpolice | Date: | Feb 19, 2013 11:50am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What was taken |
I wish the Nigerian prince would hurry with my money though.
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Poster: | Kevin VandeWettering | Date: | Feb 19, 2013 4:35pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What was taken |
This post was modified by Kevin VandeWettering on 2013-02-20 00:35:04
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Poster: | PDpolice | Date: | Feb 19, 2013 5:06pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What was taken and who helps drive the getaway car. |
But I had forgotten to give the proper greeting. Hark to the assistant Noodnix Lodge leader! I suggest a search on Kevin VandeWettering and Jory2 before following any of their legal advice.
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Poster: | Kevin VandeWettering | Date: | Feb 19, 2013 7:17pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What was taken and who helps drive the getaway car. |
This post was modified by Kevin VandeWettering on 2013-02-20 03:17:57
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Poster: | PDpolice | Date: | Feb 20, 2013 1:38am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What was taken and who helps drive the getaway car. |
Do the Noodnix have a plan to host pay only sites for our files when you stop the Archive or is this still just retribution for what you think happened a couple of years ago?
Please explain why you feel compelled to have the Archive close and us to pay you for the files we have placed here.
No Google search links please.
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Poster: | Kevin VandeWettering | Date: | Feb 20, 2013 3:52pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What was taken and who helps drive the getaway car. |
This post was modified by Kevin VandeWettering on 2013-02-20 23:52:44
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Poster: | PDpolice | Date: | Feb 20, 2013 3:45pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What was taken and who helps drive the getaway car. |
Be gone, vile thing!
I hope you know the meaning of that word!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Nolo
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Poster: | Kevin VandeWettering | Date: | Feb 20, 2013 4:11pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What was taken and who helps drive the getaway car. |
This post was modified by Kevin VandeWettering on 2013-02-21 00:11:51
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 11:04am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
The rights holders and radio programs from their Exhibit A are:
1. Jack Benny
Trust C under Will of Jack Benny
2. Phil Harris - Alice Faye
Alice Fay Trust
3. The Green Hornet
The Green Hornet, Inc.
4. Frontier Gentleman
Janice Ellis O'Hare
5. Burns & Allen
Sandra Burns Luckman
6. Edgar Bergan & Charlie McCarthy
The Bergan Foundation
7. Gang Busters
RSPT LLC, successor in interest of Charles Michelson, Inc.
8. I Was a Communist for the FBI
Milton Geiger Estate
9. Lum and Abner
Chester Lauck, Jr.
10. On Stage
Elliot Lewis Estate
11. Sam Spade
RSPT LLC, successor in interest of Lawrence White (Regis Radio Corp.)
12. The Falcon
RSPT, LLC, successor in interest of Bernard Schubert
13. The Witch's Tale
Alonzo Deen Cole Estate
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 1:42pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
There are a few reasons to believe that old time radio shows are public domain or have abandoned copyrights. I think if suits were to be brought for shows that were openly sold on reel to reel in the 1970's, it should have been then. Every library I ever went to had bootleg cassettes of all these contested works.
There are a lot of reasons to think that old time radio shows aren't public domain. Performance isn't legally publication. State common law copyright (whatever that is) may have some bearing until 2047.
The safe answer is that no old time radio is public domain.
Radio Spirits makes both arguments at the same time. If the titles they claim to have exclusive right to are infringing, so is half of it's catalog.
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Poster: | drspark61 | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 2:27pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 10:43pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
This post was modified by abisynthe on 2010-08-22 05:43:32
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Poster: | adamelijah | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 5:59pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | adamelijah | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 6:32pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
If on the other hand, Radio Spirits won the case, they'd find the series they're offering limited to just the 15 or so they can claim trademark/copyright rights too. Thus a pyhric victory. And thus Radio Spirits has become the biggest proponents of the, "Heads, I win, Tales you lose" school of copyright law.
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Poster: | coolcatdaddy | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 8:28pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
An estate could claim they own a series, but they might not - it could be in the PD or there could be another copyright owner. A licensee of the estate would be acting on what the estate tells them they have the rights to.
Again, part of the problem is that ownership isn't clear because some some additional research needs to be done or there are no records to clarify things.
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 6:50pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | adamelijah | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 7:03pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Nov 6, 2010 3:00am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
I could probably self represent in that. Might take one minute.
I am not Jesus or Joan of Arc. You can get these materials from vendors for basically a copy fee.
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 7:26pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
It left me thinking. OK fine. I hope they don't sue me.
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Poster: | Lum Edwards | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 2:30pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | coolcatdaddy | Date: | Aug 23, 2010 5:27am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
This post was modified by coolcatdaddy on 2010-08-22 00:12:37
This post was modified by coolcatdaddy on 2010-08-23 12:27:06
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 5:07pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | coolcatdaddy | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 8:26pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 4:09pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | adamelijah | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 5:36pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
To be honest, some of these shows (Lum and Abner, Green Hornet, Jack Benny, Sam Spade), there's some money in. Others I can't see how they hope to sell. (On Stage, Witches Tales, The Falcon.)
As to what we do the answer is consumer action and negative PR. Don't buy from Radio Spirits and there should be anti-RS site and articles put up. If I don't miss my guess, the company is probably on the verge of financial oblivion. This is the type of desperate things a company does when its in trouble. In the tight economy, people can't afford to shell out money for their overpriced sets
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Poster: | coolcatdaddy | Date: | Aug 22, 2010 5:53am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
RS could be getting pressured by the estates to go after material being posted they feel infringes their rights.
There was an article in the LA Times back in the early 2000s about one of RS's rounds of take-down notices and the controversy over otr rights and copyrights. In the article, Armari, who was the head of the company at the time, trotted out a writer for a popular radio sitcom and their claims were based on a contract with him. The elderly writer praised Armari's work and how he was so glad to be getting a check.
It's a wonderful quaint little picture until you dug a little deeper - this writer had no claims to rights on the series. It was a work for hire and he didn't own the program.
After Armari left the company, I believe that RS did back off on some of the contracts they held because they didn't feel the case for them was very strong. However, I still think that some estates they're dealing with are being a bit broad in what they claim to have rights to.
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Poster: | adamelijah | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 6:05pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 8:46pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
This post was modified by abisynthe on 2010-08-22 03:46:19
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Poster: | coolcatdaddy | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 8:47pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
It was a series that aired on Mutual and doesn't seem to be connected with any of the claims being made by RS.
This was a sustaining series that might have been owned by Mutual.
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 9:33pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
This post was modified by abisynthe on 2010-08-22 04:33:21
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Poster: | coolcatdaddy | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 8:59pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 9:14pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | coolcatdaddy | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 9:44pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
This post was modified by coolcatdaddy on 2010-08-22 04:44:53
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 10:49pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
This post was modified by abisynthe on 2010-08-22 05:49:36
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Poster: | adamelijah | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 10:51pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Aug 22, 2010 1:13am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
This post was modified by abisynthe on 2010-08-22 08:13:56
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Poster: | Mr Filow | Date: | Aug 22, 2010 6:04pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
I suggest you all make digital copies of your Radio Spirits Material (your legal backup copy) and then dump all of the Radio Spirits material back into the market [Ebay, Amazon, ...](and forget to delete your backup copy). Then suggest to the next guy he do the same thing. This will take all of the money off of the table for RS and reduce their catalog value to 0.
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Poster: | drspark61 | Date: | Aug 22, 2010 9:31pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | adamelijah | Date: | Aug 22, 2010 10:07pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | RadioMan52 | Date: | Aug 25, 2010 2:04pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
It still is a puzzling mystery on how he can claim that he owns the rights to something that was in the public domain and freely available way before he even opened up the “Spirits” BS when he was in college, If I remember he even stated in a few of his radio programs that he was obtaining the material by FTP download from “Bulletin Boards” remember them?
So if you want to get some of the material it looks like we may have to resort to the “torrent” system as a get even BBS to Torrent, full circle as far as I can see
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Poster: | adamelijah | Date: | Aug 25, 2010 4:19pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
There are a lot of nasty things that go with Torrents. I think that's kind of a last resort for anything.
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Poster: | fedupwithgarbage | Date: | Sep 6, 2010 9:29am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
It's exactly this "tuck tail between legs and hide" philosophy that will eventually shut this whole web site down and all of this rare and historical media will be lost to everyone but a few wealthy collectors.
Thanks
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Sep 7, 2010 12:51am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
This post was modified by abisynthe on 2010-09-07 07:51:07
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Poster: | jeffzkrazie | Date: | Sep 7, 2010 5:57pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Nov 6, 2010 2:21am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
That would lead you to common law copyrights, which you'd have to sue violators in a state court.
It is probably questionable that RS invoked DMCA takedowns for works that absolutely have no federal protection.
It would be expensive and a half for RS to actually sue anyone in 50 states. The result would probably be varied.
If this were federal law, trademark and personality rights cannot keep a work out of the public domain. We have the uncertainty of state courts with sound recordings prior to 1972.
Is any of this stuff public domain? No. It has been relegated to state courts to determine the copyright status of sound recordings before 1972 until 2047. I will be dead by then, but maybe I should have a time capsule on 60 year old media ;)
Could you get sued? Mostly this stuff was abandoned in the 70's. Amari probably bought the "rights" to this stuff for a 6 pack. I know Mediabay has used tape vendors to get the materials they use and then harassed the people the bought them from.
Are any sound recordings prior to 1972 public domain? NO.
Is it likely that a state court would award damages for materials that are commercially worthless? Again NO.
Would a corp just wash this in bankruptcy if it happened? Of course. Without federal punitive damages, a lawsuit would not be worth it.
I think RS should just concentrate on giving bookstore visitors high quality (it's been slipping) recordings and quit paying a pimply lawyer.
Some of the materials that remain unclaimed by Radio Spirits are Basil Rathbone Sherlock Holmes episodes which they do not claim, but offer extremely high quality recordings. I recommend them.
It is by offering a quality product, not suing, that is their business. I have RS CD's.
I will never, ever buy another one.
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Poster: | abisynthe | Date: | Nov 6, 2010 2:57am |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | coolcatdaddy | Date: | Aug 21, 2010 8:37pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
"I think we have to question whether this section of the Internet Archive is a good idea and whether anyone can say that any of this stuff is public domain. The best I could say is that it was mostly treated that way for 50-70 years."
That's a bit hasty, in my opinion.
There are some otr programs that have clear lines of copyright and ownership, usually syndicated programs that were run for several years in the otr era but sometimes network shows where the characters and scripts were protected by the owners over time.
However, there are many others that can be pretty safely looked at as pd material. There are programs produced for government agencies or syndicated programs where the company that produced it and/or sponsored it doesn't exist anymore.
"Something changed here now. Radio Spirits has sworn under penalty of perjury that they own the materials they issued the DMCA takedown notices for. That's different from vague threats from Carl Amari when his list of ownership in radio programs was a trade secret and Radio Spirits was taking broad potshots."
RS's list of shows they control is still proprietary information - they don't publish it. You're only seeing the list of programs in these threads that they've chosen to claim rights on right now.
In some cases, RS is acting on shows they own the copyright on, which they've purchased from other parties. In others, they're saying that an estate or entity that they license from is telling them that they control a particular series or set of shows.
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Poster: | drspark61 | Date: | Aug 19, 2010 5:42pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
It will be a shame to lose the OTRR collections of the Dragnet and X Minus One, if Radio Spirits makes a claim on those as well. With all of the research and background material, photos, scripts, etc., those are extraordinary resources. Worth paying for easily -- amazing that they're here for free.
I see that Radio Spirits also sells Johnny Dollar collections, so I wonder if the OTRR collection of that here is also in jeopardy.
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Poster: | Lum Edwards | Date: | Aug 19, 2010 5:48pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
>>>From http://www.falconpicturegroup.com/AboutUs.html
Over the past 20 years, Amari has licensed more than 60,000 radio shows and has entered into business relationships with numerous companies, owners and estates including: CBS, MGM, Thomas Nelson, Inc., Westwood One, NBC, The Frank Sinatra Estate, The Alfred Hitchcock Estate, Broadway Video, The Ray Bradbury Estate, Goldenbooks, Classic Media, TV Guide, The Smithsonian Institution, The Orson Welles Estate, The Leslie Charteris Estate, Conde Nast Publications, The Bing Crosby Estate, Larry Harmon Pictures, MCA Universal, The Jack Benny Estate, The George Burns & Gracie Allen Estate, The Abbott & Costello Estate, Archie Comics, The Conan Doyle Estate, The Red Skelton Estate, The Milton Berle Estate, The Jimmy Stewart Estate, American Movie Classics, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc., The Humphrey Bogart Estate, DC Comics. Mr. Amari has also negotiated endorsement agreements with many celebrities including: Walter Cronkite, Andy Williams, George Burns, Ray Bradbury, Wes Craven and Jerry Lewis. <<<
Holding the rights to a valid trademark doesnt always mean the shows cannot be PD. Take Superman for example, Likely one of the most guarded trademarked names but there are sure enough PD cartoons here on IA. R$ also left intact the 15 pages of Superman OTR.
In my opinion These are mostly shadow claims to phantom rights. Would they hold up under a court case. Dunno but I am not the one going to pick a fight with the "800 pound Gorilla".
Mike D.
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Poster: | adamelijah | Date: | Aug 19, 2010 7:34pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | adamelijah | Date: | Aug 19, 2010 4:35pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | Lum Edwards | Date: | Aug 19, 2010 4:42pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | Naked-Gord-Program | Date: | Aug 19, 2010 5:29pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
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Poster: | drspark61 | Date: | Aug 19, 2010 5:41pm |
Forum: | oldtimeradio | Subject: | Re: What Is Gone |
http://www.archive.org/details/SherlockHolmesAsReadByBasilRathbone